Dammit, SPN...

[beanside]

Make up your fucking mind when it comes to John! Either demonize him, or don't, but stop the goddamn waffling.

In Season 1&2, he was a tortured man who loved his boys and did his best.

Sold his soul for Dean? Crawled out of hell to save his boys one last time? Loved his wife so much that he dedicated his life to killing the demon and protecting his boys?

Season 3 was a little bit rough, but then we had Matt Cohen, and awesome BabyJohn. Now, this season has been one long assrape of all the prior ones.

Getting sick of it, people. I'm not quitting the show or anything, but it's making sure that I won't rewatch most of the season.

Comments

[nilchance.livejournal.com]

idk, my bff T? I love you like Dean loves pie and John loves Mary.

(You may want to throw this behind a spoiler cut?)

[serendip50.livejournal.com]

Hi...I agree with you wholeheartedly... the show needs to be more consistent.
Sam's happy memories being totally devoid of his brother's presence is purely contrived and totally selfish (ok Sam is selfish and self-centred:), but probably done for ulterior motives other than concerning themselves with the shows' consistency!
It just doesn't ring true.. .Doing a complete U-turn is not what this show is all about....Baaa humbug. xx

[denyce.livejournal.com]

I agree and completely hate the contradiction. From the beginning on the show, and on the site with John's journal entries its filled with inconsistencies just slapped together more as an after thought. And I get that the show was/is the POV of the boys after this big event that shaped their lives.

For me, last nights mess I already have a fix it possibly that worked for me.... First thing was to remember that its Dean's memory from when he was 3-4 years old. Second the only reason I can see John leaving his wife/child for any length is if he discovered Mary's past as a Hunter and even possibly about Mary's deal. For me that would have rocked John's world enough for him to leave. To try and figure out how to deal with everything and especially that his wife lied to him.

With Dean at 3-4 they wouldn't have blatantly talked about it front of him, but he would get that they were fighting, the tension... *shrugs* anyhoo, just my thoughts fixing it to make it more my John ;)

[not-sally.livejournal.com]

In one word? Yes.

[paleogymnast.livejournal.com]

Spoilery comment is spoilery...

I just keep trying to rationalize it as the show is filtered through Dean's perspective a lot of the time... right now Dean is having problems reconciling his own feelings about John so John comes across a bit inconsistent--that John we just saw in 3.13 wouldn't have left Mary for anything short of finding out about hunting... then again, we are seeing the scene from a four-year-old's perspective and understanding, so that may be why it doesn't make a lot of sense. Who knows if John and Mary were really fighting or if something else was going on that kept John away for a few days... Dean thinks John moved out and that Mary needed comforting.

Also, I'm thinking that their recollection of Heaven this time was a bit engineered shall we say? Zachariah clearly had some *goals* in mind with getting both Winchesters in Heaven. I'm also not so sure Pamela was really Pamela, or if she was really speaking her mind or being manipulated. I'm not so sure the scenes we saw of Dean and Sam were really Deans and Sam's happiest memories or anything like that, they seemed more like memories Zachariah was encouraging (or even "god" was encouraging if he is that much of an asshole who exists but doesn't give a shit as the episode implied... again, that's if we trust the messenger). You know, give Sam more reason to think John was an asshole (maybe his daddy!hate has been waning too much recently) and Dean more reason to feel unloved and unwanted.

It's just difficult to tell what the intent of the episode was... and that's why its difficult to tell if it was iffy writing/character development or sneaky stealthy hint dropping.

[ginger-sunshine.livejournal.com]

I'm a bit torn about the episode too. It seemed inconsistent, and I agree with the comments about WTH were they doing, and was it on purpose or just clumsiness?

I might actually buy that Sam's idea of heaven does include his moments of independence, because Sam has always wanted to do his own thing. I seriously doubt that ALL of his heaven is moments where he ditched Dean, but I'll buy that the angels perhaps manipulated what the boys saw in order to alienate them. I could go with that.

The John leaving Mary for a few days I have some issues with though. One of the revelations this season was that the angels had spent a lot of time and energy getting John and Mary together to begin with, and that it was one of the major plans that Heaven had been cooking up. It doesn't quite ring true to me, but then again they also established that J&M hated each other before douche angels got into the mix, so maybe they're going for the "free will is ineffable" schtick, without throwing us a bone beforehand? Though we do have Team Free Will, so maybe that was supposed to be our clue?

Yeah. I dunno. For the most part I did like the ep, but I did wonder how much of what they boys were seeing was them, and how much was a manipulation so they would do what Zack wanted them to. The angels have probably had a buttload of practice by now. :-P

[impala1967.livejournal.com]

Don't get me wrong, I love JDM but I've never really liked john. The phone call with Mary had me thinking not about hunting cause in S1 its cannon that he found out about that stuff after her death, so I was wondering if he was thinking about rejoining the army. And memory is subjective ... after Mary died, of course the marriage was going to be the best, not the usual ups and downs.
But I loved that mary gave dean his pie obession :)